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Type r Engine conversion


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Colin Howells
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I have started on my shopping list for the conversion of an FN2 type r egine in the libra.
I have already the 2010 front end engine/gearbox with 7k on the clock. I have bought a performance manifold. The engine frame has been held up becuase i c I have started on my shopping list for the conversion of an FN2 type r egine in the libra.
I have already the 2010 front end engine/gearbox with 7k on the clock. I have bought a performance manifold. The engine frame has been held up becuase i chose the fn2 engine instead of the ep3 older engine so the mounts are slightly different so alan gow is picking up the engine in a few weeks time to take away to adapt the frame for the conversion.
this throttle works on drive by wire on the newer engine but have since figured it would be best to put the older type r throttle body on which is cable operated, i will probably have it machined or pick up an uprated throttle body to increase the throttle chamber for breathing.
Due to the drive by wire the sensors and he loom for the FN2 k20z4 engine being wrong the standard ecu wont work with the cable operation so i am probably going to be putting an after market omex ecu (probably omex 710) if i can find one second hand to save a little money.
I have not decided on whether to go for a supercharger conversion as of yet or to stay and uprate the inlet manifold and see from there. If i go for a supercharger it would be a rotrex which would replace the aircon pump low level beside the sump give about 7 psi which would return about 300bhp and probably about 200ibft torque, its probably way too much?!
Regardless i have to put a lsd in the box but unsure which way to go with this either. I could go for the quiaffe (safe bet) or the newer waetrac version (unsure as it is new but costs more)
I am missing a few bits and pieces like linkages front and rear engine mounts and gear selector but i am working on that now. The drive shafts are being altered at the moment to fit onto the original hubs from the k20z4 engine.

I am unsure if i will have any problems getting the clocks and gauges to work but i was going to try and figure it out out once i have the engine area sorted.
This going to be a long process, probably a few months of sourcing the parts etc and getting my head around any potential problems but i am open to any advise of any potential problems anyone may see that i have over looked so far.

Colin

...........................
"Too much boost is just enough!"

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Andy Clark
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Nice one.
Have recently finished my conversion but with the older cable operated throttle type engine.
I modified the original (Rover K series) engine frame and had new drive shafts made to length once it was nailed in.
I’ve stuck with the original ECU, got a fella in Germany to sort out the alarm/multiplex circuit and raise the Rev limit a wee bit.
Water and oil sensors are easy enough to fit with adaptors and the speedo only needed a small adjustment to read correctly.
On the gear change I looked at the Elise adaptors but in the end just went for two long cables and it works well. The cross gate worked the wrong way (1st where 6th should be) you just need to swap the pivot side at the gear stick to fix that.
Water pipes all end up in nearly the right place but there isn’t a lot of space left for your electrics.
If you run into trouble give me a shout and will try and see if I had the same problem.
I wouldn’t worry about a charger just yet (Yep I’ve been looking and hope I’ve left enough space) I ran a 190bhp VVC before and the difference with the Honda is noticeable to say the least.
Good Luck
Clarky

Colin Howells
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i am sure i will be giving you a shout sooner rather than later then.

Just didn't know whether to chuck it on and map the engine to dial the power down with ecu control if it was too much or too little.

...........................
"Too much boost is just enough!"

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Bertram Bakker
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My engine has somewhere between 265 and 275 Hp. Of cource the characteristic is very different, because it is a turbo engine. Still, one can never have enough power Smile

Bye,

Bertram

Bye,

Bertram

www.gtmlibra.nl

Colin Howells
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I know what you mean bertram, it all goes back to my original moto, too much boost is just enough!
Of couse i am buying a supercharger i have bidded on two rotrex superchargers on ebay already but i am having trouble sorcing a manifold for the rotrex as many suppliers won't split the kits to sell me the manifold on its own
I have since decided to give it a go the same as andy and use a ep3 wiring loom and ecu and then kpro it with a throttle cabled type throttle body from the ep3.
Still sourcing bit as we speak as purchasing loads of bits but so far the mrs hasn't noticed i spent too much already, she will be upset but i have hidden everything in work at the moment but the rotrex will definately hit the spot if she notices that one. lmao!

What i need to get is:-
rotrex kit (second hand prefered) c30 -94
Throttle body ep3
Top pulley off the engine (mine is missing)
lsd (quaiffe or wavetrac)
stage 2 act clutch
lighter flywheel

Should be ready to go for it then (probably 2/3 months time) slow process preparing.

Colin

...........................
"Too much boost is just enough!"

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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Update

I have a rotrex c30 94 supercharger with lower mounting kit to replace the aircon pump on the engine. i have gone with the advise of tdi north (honda specialists) and using the standard manifold as he believes it will flow better than the TTS manifold. He believes on my setup i could see 350bhp. I will still back down to around 300bhp though as i think this could be way too much or allow the dump valve to bleed the system to run a low boost hight boost system. Apparently it would whistle all the time though, anybody else got a better idea for boost control on a supercharger.

Had to send engine/box off to alan gow in the end as it wasn't right so he is making a frame for the fn2 type r engine. Incase in the future someone else tries the same setup he has all the dimensions

Waiting on ebay for a throttle body
Picked up a missing pulley from honda in the end
Wavetrac lsd coming from the US (cheaper)
stage 4 clutch on its way
3.9kg flywheel on its way
Decided on the ep3 honda civic type r ecu and loom in the end will try and wire it back in place of the fn2 loom (i now have). Will kpro it once i have put the new engine and it runs no problems on standard management ready for the supercharger.
I have sent the ecu off to try and have the immobiliser removed but i think the kpro can turn it off as well.

Need to buy in now.
hondata Kpro ecu
baffled sump
exhaust manifold to be built by longlife (2minutes from my office)
injector dynamics 725
mapping
rotrex oil
rotrex oil filter
HKS dump valve
Pipe works etc

Getting there gradually still, just ironing out the kinks before i start in time.

Colin

...........................
"Too much boost is just enough!"

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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Update

Old engine is now out and i have started looking into bolting the newer type r engine in, probably next week now.

I have reconditioned the rotrex supercharger and bolted to the car on a lower mounting bracket to take away the air pump. I will put some photo's on soon.

parts list so far is:-
FN2 type r engine with 7k on the engine
6 speed gearbox
Wavetrac LSD
Stage 4 competition clutch
Lightened 3.9kg flywheel
C30-94 rotrex supercharger
rotrex lower mounting kit
HKS SSQV dump valve
oil cooler for the engine (a must)
intercooler for the supercharger (not bought yet need to make sure everything lines up first)
EP3 Throttle body and cable
Inlet manifold uprated gaskets (less heat soak)
exhaust uprated gasket (less heat soak)
throttle body gasket (less heat soak)
Throttle cables altered and adjsuted to suit VVC gearstick and type r gearbox
EP3 Loom
EP3 Hondata Kpro management system (too Map it)
Injector dynamics 725
Bosch 044 or walbro 255 inline fuel pump (not purchased yet)
baffled Sump a must on these engines(not purchased yet)
Longlife too build exhaust system (Thinking of seeing if there is a chance/room of fitting a twin exhaust in)
Driveshafts cut and alter too fit exisiting hubs to the type r gearbox. (A little concerned here but have been assured they will hold no problem)

There is certainly alot of consumables i am missing but will deal with as i go. The way it is going i am hopeful to finish before christmas now

I have talked extensively with paul from TDI North who tune the type r engines and is hopeful to see 300/350bhp at the flywheel with mods i have and will install soon. He said the engine is reilable too 350bhp no problem from his extensive experience, but i am happy with 300hbp to be honest which will probably be a handful anyways and reliable which is key.

I think the tricky stuff will be mating the loom to the fn2 sensors which where it will go wrong but luckily one of my mates has 04 plate type r and can visually look and see what i am missing to get it running.

Colin

"Too much boost is just enough!"

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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Andy

What did you use or do to fine tune the speedo as i am sure this problem will arrive soon for me and didn't realize it is adjustable.
I could get this fine tuned on the rolling road when it gets mapped.

Couldn't help myself i had to have the supercharger installed, thinking of the mrs i have opted for a two stage boost control with the dumpvalve bleeding off the pressure for low boost and high boost. The only problem is i will have a car on low boost sounding like it has an air leak, but hopefully won't use low boost that much

Colin

"Too much boost is just enough!"

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Andy Clark
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Good Day
The following has all the info you should need.

http://www.teamgtm.com/node/13972

Did mine against several different GPS sources.
Don’t know if mine is typical but if you set it accurately for 30/40 it is very optimistic at the top end.

Colin Howells
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Cheers
I will lok into this when i get too that point.
Another question how did you align the speedo cable from the vvc to the type r. It is one area i have overlooked, it one of those things near the end (small things) which you forget which is also important.

Colin

"Too much boost is just enough!"

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Andy Clark
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Mine had a separate 3 cable loom, you will only need the cable that feeds the pulses to the speedo. The Honda already feeds speed info to the ECU (reverse lock out etc.) but there should also be a pin on the bulkhead connector from the sensor.

Colin Howells
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I am looking into the fuel pump situation i have on my conversion with the type r engine with a supercharger.

I was going to use the existing fuel pump in the tank which is a wfx10038 going by the information from the forums as a lift pump and then install an inline Bosch 044 which i have already or an internal walbro 255 pump but i dont know if this type of pump will fit inside the existing tank. Does anyone know before i just order one up? I am assuming a rover 114gti pump is the right one but approximately what year is the tank that is fited to the car? 

I have given myself a deadline for the end May to deliver the car to TDI north for completion and have a one off exhaust made at the same time as the mapping be completed at the same time etc

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Toby Wills
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Full marks for where your takin the libra I am thinking of a engine conversion once the k series blows up but try as i might the dam thing keeps going but still fine tunning the handling with only 143 BP on tap what set up do you have are you running the old type suspension on the rear or the z car up grade

Toby 

Colin Howells
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Currently running the old setup but i have literally just come off the blower to chris at z cars for a complete kit. They are saying £1500 + vat + delivery so  far plus and extra an extra £? for adjustable engine/gearbox steady bars whichwe are negotiating about and timescales.

Just got the vvc throttle cable altered over the weekend to fit the EP3 type thottle body and used a EP3 type r throttle body adapter kit to fit to the fn2 type newer engine. Took me hours trimming the steel wire off the internal cable to give me the correct length. Also located an RX7 side mounted intercooler in the back but will need to weld some brackets on and make some type of air scoop through the side/back of the car to allow the air in better.

All black samco xtreme hoses ordered and will land in three or so weeks time for fitment and just bought some carbon fibre square tubing to mount a rail above the rear anti roll to fit the aem fuel filter/aeromotive FPR/ rotrex tank & chrome  header tank.

Getting there slowly though

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Bertram Bakker
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Any pictures Colin? Sounds like a project worth to see!

 

Bye,

Bertram

www.gtmlibra.nl

Roger Hammond
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I wonder how many kits Z Cars have sold? I was supposed to get £500 refund if they sold 10!

Colin Howells
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I couldn't figure out how to attach the photo's, can someone give me a dummies guide on how to attach.

Can't be far from the 10No kits by now bought. How much has everyone been paying for kits out of curiousity?

 

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Craig Lawton
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Here's a guide, let me know how you get on.

http://www.teamgtm.com/node/11

Coen van der Zanden
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Excellent project....

After a long time my Type-R engine conversion is complete. Since I couldn't spend enough time on it I had it done by a kitcar specialist in the NL. He rebuilt the engine frame, engine steady, exhaust, driveshafts, etc and it is controlled by an OMEX 710 ECU. 

Driving it is a whole new sensation, when it revs up to above 8500 rpm the noise is fantastic but also LOUD and even a bit scary. On the dyno it came back with 211 Bhp and 198 Nm Torque and that is plenty of power when I drive it for now... a supercharger on that will make it really scary and requires a hero to keep it under control!

I will post some pics later...

Rgds, Coen

Bertram Bakker
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Pictures!!!!   Smile

Bye,

Bertram

www.gtmlibra.nl

Colin Howells
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IMG_1307IMG_1303IMG_1303IMG_1303IMG_1303

GTM Type r engine install 1

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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Pictures so far but i have progressed further so i will take some more tonight, out of curiousity i have submitted the photos at 800 x 600 but seem a little wide should it have been 600 wide and 800 tall.

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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It sounds like i am going to far with the supercharger but altleast i can control the supercharger boost via the dump valve and perhaps get it mapped with lower boost on the first few gears maybe?

I almost went the omex 710 route but decided to keep with the loom and get an ep3 type r ecu programmed ready for a kpro setup. Yes pictures would be great, it can show where i am going wrong potentially too :-)  

As at the moment i am struggling on the header tank figuring where to plump into the system and working out if the origianl car had an immobiliser located elsewhere other than inside the original vvc ecu

Colin

 

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Coen van der Zanden
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Here some piccies, it's hard to show details as the clam is on the car... ready to go any time.

Sint-Michielsgestel-20120510-00089

Sint-Michielsgestel-20120510-00090

Sint-Michielsgestel-20120510-00092

Your gear linkage is very different to mine, this pic is not from mine as it is hidden below all cables and I couldn't take a picture. It gives me a very short shift but it isn't really smooth and doesn't center the gearstick very well. Are you using the standard Honda setup, the cables must be very long. Where do you get those from?

CIMG2773_r (1)

Colin Howells
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I had my linkages made by Alan gow when he made the engine frame, i am sure he could replicate if i ask him? I will attach a photo of the gear stick assembly tomorrow but I have concerns as it is the rover assembly and you have push over either way to get the gear because it is six speed. It is hard to know until I start it up when drive t

I like your pictures though, very nice work indeed.

Out curiousity where did you connect your header tank into? Also did you install a different stat.

When s your startup date?

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Coen van der Zanden
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Very interested to see the gear stick assembly, I am using an MG/F gearstick assembly and that worked very well on the Rover K-Series engine, still does on the K20 engine but the gearbox side assembly isn't great. I think the gear linkage you are using is much better. If you could ask Alan Gow whether he can make a complete set for the gearbox side I would be much obliged... 

Here is how my K20 has been plumbed. The stat is standard but has been renewed as it was broken. The radiator fan is controlled by the ECU

Slide1

Colin Howells
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 GTM Type r Libra Linkages 3

Picture of front gearstick with cables fed through did you find that the gears were close together?.

Cheers for the diagram it is very useful to see.

I will drop alan a line for a cost for the parts for the linkages and bracketry etc and go from there.

colin 

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Bertram Bakker
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@Coen: I used a Toyota Starlet gear stick & mechanism in the past. Nive and compact, worked very well for me. Pictures can be found here on the forum and also on my website. I tried the MGF thing, but discarded it in the end.  Way too big and too much friction inside.

Car looks good!

Bye,

Bertram

www.gtmlibra.nl

Colin Howells
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Made contact from alan gow about the linkages, brackets etc. He is on holiday at the moment and not back till 22nd but thinks it was around the £450 all in with no vat invoice but it may cost you a little more for your postage as this is a price in the UK.

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Coen van der Zanden
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Thanks Guys, the gears are indeed close together, that might also be the gearbox??

I will put some miles on the car first before I change the gear stuff for (another) 450... would you have an email address for Alan Gow so I can get in touch when the time is right?

Thx, Coen

Colin Howells
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Can anyone tell me from who has fitted a 2.0l type r engine to there car how many wires are on your sump sensor for the ep3 engine, mine has 3 (being an fn2 engine) but i think EP3 has two. I am using the ep3 loom which is causing me a little agro. If it can be confirmed either way or will need to buy another sensor for the sump to make it work.

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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adding another photo for an update so far.

I am presently now looking at the ECU side of things and connecting the pumps/switches etc into the exisiting plug from the old VVC loom.

I have attached some photo's of some plugs, can anyone recognize them the one does say inertia on it and was mounted on the n/s bulkhead. The other i believed plugged onto the old engine but can't remember where to though

I have another plug which is grey on the type r loom which i thought did a sump sensor but maybe not, can anyone with a type r engine installed identify where it goes.

IMG_1329

 IMG_1326

IMG_1326

 

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Coen van der Zanden
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Hi Colin,

The big plug is for the speedo sensor I think (at least the colors match with the GTM loom. The other I don't know, what are the wire colors?

Since I am using an OMEX ECU I dont know what the standard Honda wires are...

Rgds, Coen

Colin Howells
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You are definately right, it was sods law my mate come up tonight and I stripped his air filter to look for ths wire as well.

So great news really. Only one problem I have is on my engine and box is the fn2 version, where this sensor is meant to be it is replaced with a bolt instead. I do have a sensor but it is the wrong side so I think i am better off looking for another sensor to put in its place. Failing that I cold try and figure what each of the three wires do and solder them on. 

I'll keep you posted.

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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almost figured out all the wiring connections but there is just that one plug on the pcture i attached which plugs into the VVC engine or gearbox somewhere. Can anyone remember where it goes (i knew i should have marked it up before i whipped the engine out, lol)

Another one is the fan control, can anyone tell me which wire at the ecu side this was on the vvc engine loom. Basically i think the sensors on the type r pickup the temperature via a certain amount ohms inside the type r ecu which will trigger the front fan. I know the fan has an earth switch trigger but there must be a live trigger wire somewhere? Failing that i was going to go with green/blue for the temperature sender and see where that ends up.  

 

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Coen van der Zanden
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If you give me the colors of the wires for the spare plug I could tell you...

Cooling fan wiring: You can use a spare wire in the GTM Loom to transfer the signal earth to activate a relay in the front of the car to power the fan.

The green/blue goes up to the temp gauge

Rgds, Coen

Colin Howells
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I have finally sent my car away yesterday to have an exhaust made to fit and have it mapped to its current setup with the supercharger on it. Car should be back around the end of the month worst case really unless i have done something wrong but the fuel pumps prime engine turns over, so i must be close (can't actually start it becuase there is no exhaust and the plugs for the injectors have to be changed to fit properly so it wouldn't fire up anyways)

I had a couple of teething problems with the gears and didnt realise i had the gears were back to front and so got a linkage set for the honda exige tuning company which gives me a short shift gearstick as well as the cables but i should have got the cables about 200mm longer to make it easier for me.

I have sent the car up to TDI North minus one 90 bend hose from the throttle body to the dump valve, i am certain i bought this one but i pulled my garage apart looking for it and couldn't find it anywhere and so asked the tuning company to buy a hose for me instead.

i am not entirely finished, just teething problems to look for really when the car comes back as i drive it. As well as an adjustment here and there really

Updated pictures of what i have done so far:-

 DSCF2414

DSCF2420

DSCF2422

DSCF2415

DSCF2412

DSCF2408

DSCF2409

I do need to create a better air flow to the intercooler and be careful of clearance issues to the floor as the sump is about 5/6" from ground clearance but i would appreciate any feedback if you think i have wrong anywhere that i may have misses 

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Bertram Bakker
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Hi Colin,

Looks very good!

I read your first post again, and noticed that you are looking at 300 Hp. That is a very nice power goal. It also means that you will generate a lot of heat! In that respect our cars are probaly simular.

I currently use a Passat radiator at the front for the main engine cooling (including water cooler gearbox oil cooler and water cooled engine oil cooler), and 2 Honda 250 Cross bike radiators to cool the water of the charge cooler. I need to dive in deeper, but it seems that my cooling system is sub-optimal. The small cross bike radiators do not manage to keep the charge cooler water cool, and the main cooling system suffers in harsh conditions. The engine oil is on the hot side now that the water for the engine oil cooler runs through the gearbox oil cooler first. Finally my air filter is in the engine bay, providing pre-heated air to the turbo. Not good!

I plan to do major modifications to the cooling system this winter. No on to your setup. I am a bit worried about the intercooler and the oil cooler. The engine bay gets very hot inside (certainly at lower speeds) and that inter cooler needs air as cold as possible to be effective. With all those coolers in your engine bay your intake air will also become hotter than it should be. It is not easy to get heat out of air, the colder you get it in the better is is.

I think some serious ducting from the naca duct to the intercooler, possible a fan on the intercooler (calculate the air speed, you might be surprised / dissapointed!), a cold air intake will help you. Personally I would also consider moving the oil cooler to the naca duct, will not do much positioned like this...

 

   

Bye,

Bertram

www.gtmlibra.nl

Colin Howells
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Some very Good points, I was planning on getting a carbon duct/scoop made for the near side window to directly feed the Intercooler  (ran out of time) but when they dyno it they were going to tell me the air temps to find the weaknesses. I did think as you said with the fan on the intercooler (the same method on the mr2 turbo) but thought i would see the engine bay temps first. I believe Paul originally fitted the uprated larger passatt rad in the  front but turbo cars do run hot from my experiences in the past. 

 I have a carbon fibre air box to allow direct cold air into it which I need to find out if it works from the side intake points (if enough cold air comes in) I have it mounted low down almost on top of the z cars suspension arm. I opted for the engine oil cooler as an extra but they don't come as standard for the type r's over here but I could move to under car to where I have sited the supercharger oil cooler (behind the main post for the z cars suspension a bit of a squeeze though) instead depending on the oil temps when pushed. I do agree that there will be little air to the engine oil cooler, but i am starting to run out of room for locations to mount things but i was also thinking of bringing the oil cooler forward about two foot and put a duct in from the off side air intake as you said

I will see what happens in the next couple of weeks whilst the exhaust goes on and they run it up on the rollers and map it.

Hopefully it is a cooler running rotrex supercharger on there and has the oil cooler within the oil flow to help further. I don't think I will be anywhere near a turbocharger temperatures but we will see soon so hopefully less rads are needed for the cooling.

It is a starting point from here so when it comes though to then improve things a little more afterwards it would be easier knowing all the facts fom the mapping/dyno reports to make the necessary alterations. You do sometimes need to go  backwards to forward hopefully not to much though, lol.

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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Upto date picture of the exhaust system almost complete (needs lowering a little and adjusting of the tail pipe) a few minor tweeks needed. They think they will be close to finished for early next week  if everything goes to plan and give it a power run and setup.

DSC_0238

Hopefully just a few tweeks and some insulation wrap for the cables near the exhaust system and i am done. Sent off log book to update the engine on the paperwork so hopefully get that back any day as well because the MOT and tax are due the end of the month, lol.

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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Having a slight issue with the speedo not working at all does anyone know if the gtm clocks are analogue and if anyone else who has done the type r conversion know how they got the speedo working.

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Craig Lawton
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My Libra has the ETB/VDO gauges which work on pulses, possibly from the crankshaft. 

Colin Howells
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The ep3 also works from a pulse but from the gearbox. There are three wires fused ignition live, earth and the pause supply which I have taken to the ecu and linked into the dash clock but I must be wrong. The ecu requires the speed rating which I will check is ok when I load up the hon data programme on the laptop to see if it registers any spee on the map. It may need some time of adapter to alter te pulse to read on the speedo.

Does anyone know where I could get a replacement rev counter, the gtm type clock.

The pressure gauge always shows through the roof on the gauge so I think it is faulty, which model sender is required to replace it.

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Bertram Bakker
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Colin,

GTM used different suppliers for gauges during its existance. Mine are ETB, but I think few cars have been delivered with ETB gauges. ETB is obviously VDO, later they switched to Smiths. I am not sure about the brand of the earlier gauges.

I have found ETB to always be extremely helpfull when it came to solving gauge related problems. From their website they sell anything you might ever need.

I imagine that the gearbox sensor in your box should normally work with your speedo. If it does not it might be a good alternative to use a separate sensor just for the speedo? My car is like this since the DSG box does not have a speed sensor in it :-) 

Pressure gauges with too high signal is most of the time not the fault of the gauge, but of the wiring / sensor. Check this first before you spend silly money on something you do not need. ETB website holds info on resistanve values you should see from your pressure sensor.....

Bye,

Bertram

www.gtmlibra.nl

Craig Lawton
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My mistake, it is from the gearbox as you said and not the crankshaft :8) 

The pressure gauge will go to the top stop if the live and ground signals are ok, but the sensor disconnected. As Bertram suggests start looking at your wiring. Another thing to try is check the sensor resistance, it's usually a few hundred ohms. 

Colin Howells
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Yes, I have wired it temporarily to see what happened but still maxed to the top of the gauge. I am putting another sensor on to see what happens.

Luckily these are just teething problems which I can sort out as I go.

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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I have installed another oil pressure sender which I found in my garage and there is definately movement but it is sat around the 10/20 on the gauge. It used to fluctuate a lot more on the old engine but I have not run the car that long so I will wait till my gear cables turn up to run it up properly for a while longer

On the rev counter I must be close because when I crank the car it moves upto about 1k rpm and then stops. I have the gtm etb gauges I believe as it is written on the speedo. The revs seem to work on the ecu when I look on the map from my laptop plugged into it.

What options are available on the market for a speedo pickup point as I just noticed that because I have the z cars rear suspension the abs ring is not available to get to without drilling into the out hub where the driveshaft goes through. Is there something I can attach to the front wheels or to the dive shaft. Maybe even use the flywheel as I have an inspection plate at the bottom. I think it must be something between these gtm gauges and the ep3 type r gearbox, digital to analogue? How has anyone else with a type r engine got it to work?

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Colin Howells
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Still having issues with the speedo as it isn't registering at all as i put it in first gear and drove on the spot on axle stands and nothing moved. Either i have wired it wrong (pulse on the wrong cable etc) or it isn't compatible with the honda ecu/hondata.

i still have issue with the rev counter which was a little tempremental before bonce again no movement when It is cranking and goes upto around 1k rpm and then back to nothing once ithas started. i have the GTM VDO dash i think with the white dials and the gtm badge on it. I am thinking whether it maybe lacking some type of sensor in between, i may give ETB a call later to discuss with them. i would be interested to know if anyone else with a type r had similar issues.

Colin

Spin up the Rotrex!!!!!

GTM Libra Type r supercharged

BMW 320d Msport

BMW 435d xdrive msport

Craig Lawton
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Yes, I suggest you call ETB.

Also the website may be worth a try: http://www.etbinstruments.com/Wiring_Instructions.htm

Gareth Woolridge
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Colin,

The rev counter maybe the signal being too low (or high?) for the gauge?  If I remember rightly for the K-series engines the tacho needed a pull up resistor between the signal wire and 12v for the earlier MEMS2 ECU'd cars and then didnt need that resistor for MEMS3.  Maybe worth a look!  This forum will have all that old info so a search should find it!!

On my K3 that I recently converted to MEMS3 VVC that uses Greenguages/Smiths rev counter I have a different problem in that it works to 3000rpm and then dies.  Not got to the bottom of that one yet.

Speedo wise, you could use one of the hall effect sensors and magnets and use a front hub maybe?  Again when David Higgins and I built his Marlin I think we had to do a pull up for his digidash to get the speed transducer to work.  So might be worth getting a meter/scope on these outputs and seeing what voltage you're getting on the signal wire when a decent speed/rev signal should be present??

Bertram Bakker
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Colin,

If you want me to I can make some pictures of my speedo pick up that I made using an ETB sensor (Hall effect sensor) and an ETB gauge. Worked right out of the box.

 

Would that help you?

Quick description: I mounted the speedo sensor on the front side of the front upright, looking at the CV joint circumference. Then I drilled 6 1/2 inch holes equally spaced around the circumference of the in the CV joint. Works very well, at any speed my car does.

Bye,

Bertram

www.gtmlibra.nl